Over the past month, I have lost myself in multiple Nintendo worlds. I explored Super Nintendo World inside Epic Universe, the new theme park in Orlando. I was immersed in the new games arriving for the Nintendo Switch 2. I even watched the Super Mario Bros. movie on the Apple Vision Pro in 3D.

Nintendo feels like it’s crossing between worlds itself lately. The cool Power-Up Bands visitors wear in the new theme park also work as Amiibo — Nintendo’s toys that unlock gameplay — on the Switch. There’s an augmented reality Mario Kart ride at Epic Universe and another AR-powered Mario Kart game for the home. Even the Switch 2’s launch games, Mario Kart World and Donkey Kong Bananza, mirror Super Nintendo World’s two biggest ride themes. It’s all coming together in time for the Switch 2’s worldwide launch on June 5.

I had the chance to talk with Nintendo’s legendary game designer Shigeru Miyamoto while at Epic Universe’s grand opening. We chatted about game and theme park design, the future of AR and wearable tech and why the Switch 2 and Super Nintendo World resemble each other so closely. The conversation below has been edited for clarity and length.

Urmărește asta: Theme Parks, Games and Movies Are Blending: Epic Universe Is a Sign of the Future

07:15

I just went through Super Nintendo World. How did you solve making a land that’s this engaging and playable so Nintendo? As I wore the Power-Up Band, I kept thinking about that.
Miyamoto:  First of all, going back to when it was originally decided that we were going to work with Universal, I think there was a match and creativity in that both Universal and Nintendo have always wanted to create something, an experience that’s never before seen. And I think that comes in the form of interactivity. 

The technology’s there to make that interactivity possible. But the challenge comes, how do we make that comfortable? How do we make that user-friendly?

The first step we took was getting in touch with the technical folks at Universal. And upon discussion, we thought, maybe we can base the interactivity on Amiibo, because we have experience with Amiibo, and we decided to use that as a basis. But there’s always an app that’s necessary, so there’s the question of who’s going to handle the app building. And it was at that time that Universal was looking into and researching apps to be used in the theme park. So that’s where two ends met. 

I’ve looked at a lot of wearable technologies, and I was thinking about how the Power-Up Band didn’t need a phone or charging. And I inevitably think about the relationship between this and all the things that we do at home, how this works as an Amiibo — where else can it go? 
Miyamoto: I’ll start with, there’s really nothing to announce at all here. With that said, the idea of Amiibo, once you deal with the server-side data, there’s a lot that you can potentially do with that. And taking into consideration we’ve had our player base create Nintendo accounts, and there’s NSO, a subscription-based service, I feel like there’s a lot of possibility. 

One feeling that I had is that when you come to this park, you’re already living in a world of Mario. You’ve maybe been playing the games at home or you watched the film, and they blend in interesting ways. Nintendo seems to be in so many different areas now. I was curious how you feel about that.
Miyamoto: For me, as someone who worked on the original arcade game at the time, all we were able to do was create 8-bit art. And obviously myself, having wanted to be a manga artist at one point, I had this vision of what kind of world I wanted to portray and convey to the player. But obviously, the technology was limited in what I could do. So I would take steps like, for example, on the side of the arcade cabinet or on the control panel, there’s artwork. That’s the kind of thing that I had to do to really get across to the player that this is the world I want to convey. 

But now, with the advancement of technology, there’s so much more realism available in video games as the characters, as the world becomes 3D. And now, we’re actually making 3D real-life things out in the world. And it really opens up a lot of potential, and a lot of possibilities, when we’re able to collaborate with people who have the technologies to bring these things to life.

There are so many versions of Mario games, so many ways people have experienced it. In the park, how do you balance that against creating timelessness?
Miyamoto: That’s certainly a topic that has crossed our minds, and something we’ve put a lot of thought into. Because, as you said, there are many different versions of Mario. There’s Main Line Mario and spin-offs. And now, when we create something like this, creating a part with real-life Mario, even if we bring the latest version of Mario, it will no longer be the latest in a few years. What we wanted to do is really go back to the origin and make sure that we grasp the essence of what 8-bit Mario was.

When you look at the almost 40 years of history, you’ll see that Nintendo really treasures the characters that we create in its first generation. We have deep roots and strong roots, and that’s what allows us to really create these kinds of worlds. 

Because the roots are solid, we’re able to chase a little bit of what the latest technology allows us to do, or maybe go slightly off the beaten path and try something explorative. But again, it’s really the fundamentals that really we focused on so that fans of the series and of the IP can really rest assured that their IP is still safe.

When we’re talking about parks, one of the very core fundamental themes that comes up is, how do we treat Mario? What do we do with Mario in this 3D real world? It was with the Nintendo 64 that Mario leaped into the 3D world, and obviously, there’s the movie. Mario has gone through a lot of evolution. But when you look at some of the backdrops behind where Mario’s action takes place, it hasn’t evolved as much. And we were thinking about how we should approach this, it was Universal that came back to us with a real-life recreation of a question block.

We spend a lot of time on things like just the surface, the texture of the blocks, how real does it need to be to make it feel like Mario? If we do too much, or if we don’t do it enough, it feels fake. We spend a lot of time trying to figure out the perfect balance.

The construction was done indoors, and then we actually take it out to the parking lot and look at it under the real sun and see, OK, here’s what it looks like in reality, and then take it back and make adjustments. And then an extension to that was, what if a sound came out when we hit it? So they were able to create something that has a sound effect. And we thought, oh, this is actually kind of fun.

When we’re talking about Mario and Mario’s landscape, there’s a lot, but it really boils down to blocks and pipes, and making sure that we take the time and effort, and invest all of that into making sure that real people can interact with the blocks, go into the pipes. And that laid the foundation for everything that you see now.

When you look at the portal in Epic Universe and how the portal links to the pipe, it just feels like it blends into it very naturally. When we talked about how people are going to enter Super Nintendo World, at first we thought we’ll need to build a Peach Castle. But then, stepping back, we thought it’s got to be through a pipe. And that’s what resulted in Super Nintendo World being very Mario-like.

Speaking of playing with technologies, one of my favorite topics that I cover a lot is augmented reality. I was so excited to try the Mario Kart Bowser’s Challenge ride with AR, and I was curious how it felt compared to other headsets I’ve used. During the pandemic, I used Mario Kart Live Home Circuit and reviewed it at home. I was curious about how it still feels groundbreaking. What did you see in that tech, and where do you see it now?
Miyamoto: It goes back to what I had mentioned about Power-Up Bands. Technology continues to evolve as VR and AR, but really the important factor is the [comfort], how user-friendly it is.

During development of the Mario Kart ride, there was a point where we were running on hopes and predictions. We had to really wonder: Is this going to be possible by the time we need to open the park?

When in discussion with Mark Woodbury, he and I both wanted to do something new, provide a new experience. So he said, “You know, it’s going to be challenging, but let’s just do it.” And so we were able to get to a point where you see so many characters on screen, even all the Koopalings. 

And so, looking five years into the future, I’m sure there are a lot more exciting things we could do.

Obviously, we create entertainment for the home for the most part. And I feel like we’re still not at a point where there are headsets that are perfectly comfortable [to use] 24 hours a day. And so I think that helped me focus on the work [of] creating a headset for the theme park experience.

I’ve had a lot of Nintendo experiences this past month. With Epic Universe, and then Switch 2 launching; seeing Mario Kart and Donkey Kong there, and then playing Mario Kart and Donkey Kong, I see this kind of blending of experiences. They feel connected. Do you see it that way more going forward, that they’ll inform each other?
Miyamoto: First of all, I think there’s the concept of really being IP-focused. Obviously, we are an entertainment company that has created games, but now that focus has been based on IP.

When we’re talking about theme parks, we don’t have experience. So we collaborate with professionals, great people that have a lot of experience working with theme parks. Same goes for movies. And within that, we’re able to bring something that’s a very specific kind of knowledge and experience that only Nintendo can provide. Having experienced that kind of collaboration has really felt very good, and I feel like there’s something there.

But when you think back, I myself was just drawing manga, and I wanted to create toys. But I wouldn’t have been able to create games without, say, programmers.

So when you talk about how we develop games at Nintendo, I think it really lends itself to being able to collaborate with external partners like this. 

Now that we have all these aspects, there are people who start to interact and engage with our IP through video games. Someone might be introduced and start interacting with them through the theme park or the movie. So I really feel like there’s a lot of potential to expand ideas. And in that sense, you could say that there’s a lot more blending of worlds.